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March 20, 2009

Saving Our World for Tomorrow: A 21st Century Approach to Politics and Sustainable Development (Part 1 of 4)

This is the first in a series of 4 articles by Brent Densmore dealing with the current crisis facing the world as a result of 20th century over-expansion and unsustainable development. Today's article is an introduction to the series, a contextual look at some of the factors that have contributed to where we are today, as well as some of the challenges that we face in moving forward. Please check back at 5pm EST on each of the next four Fridays for the continuing story.

The collapse of the Berlin Will and the subsequent end to the Cold War reinforced the fact that capitalism and democracy were the dominant economic and political systems of the world. The spread of the free market economy and the rapid decrease in telecommunication infrastructure have resulted in an extensive global marketplace that is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Rich western nations, such as the United States and Great Britain, are no longer the economic super powers they once were. India, Japan and China, to name a few, now have the same access to markets and information as the rest of the world.

As a result, these nations are now able to compete with the historically rich nations, something many thought could never be done. It was only 30 years ago that wealth was virtually non-existent in these nations; today, their economies are growing at a rapid pace and their people are reaping the benefits. These nations however, are now consuming more food and water than ever and are demanding many of the same consumer products we have in here in Canada.

While it is a great that these new nations are now prospering, the world as a whole cannot sustain this new level of consumption; never before have our natural resources been depleted at such an alarming rate. There will be nothing left of our planet if we continue to live at this rate for the next 50 years.
(Editor's Note: a recent article from the BBC suggests that global resources will be depleted even faster, please see: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7951838.stm)

In order to fix this problem and right the ship for future generations, we must all begin to live a more sustainable way of life. It will take a collected effort to change our old habits, something that may be hard for many, but it must be done.

The first step to implementing a more sustainable way of life requires a change in government policies. Secondly, the use of renewable resources as legitimate energy sources must become a reality. Finally, there must be changes made to how our cities are being built. While this is by no means an inclusive list, these three ideas will build the crucial foundation of a more sustainable way of life.

The development of a more sustainable way of life will require everyone to make a diligent effort. This isn’t something that one person or country can accomplish on their own. In order to make sure that everyone is on the same page, it will require the leadership of all governments around the world. They must be committed to significant change and be willing to absorb public resentment for as with any other new idea, there will be a share of the public who opposes new ideas.

As mentioned previously, the first step in this process is for governments to change certain outdated policies and most importantly, enact new environmental legislation. Mark Lynas states “the environment is still seen as a soft-focus poor relation to the real hard-politics issues such as health, the economy and asylum-seekers and so on” (Lynas: “Bring in the police to save the planet.” New Statesmen 9 May 2005: 40). The era of growing GDP at the expense of the environment must come to an end. While there is no denying that these too are important issues, it is clearly time that the environment becomes part of this list.

During the recent United States presidential election, President Obama released an extensive list of environmental policies and ideas that he believed would help cure our addiction to an unsustainable way of life. Some of his ideas included “government investment in clean energy and green jobs, promotion of green technologies and fuel efficiency standards, protection of the Great Lakes and National Parks, and the promotion of inner-city recycling programs” (“Obama on the Environment”). While by no means is this an inclusive list, it is an excellent start and it is a relief to see that the President of the United States has aspirations to fix this problem.

The most important ideas Obama lists relate to the promotion and investment in clean energy, technologies and jobs. If the government doesn’t promote or invest in these ideas then who will? In today’s competitive global market, corporations will require a long-term commitment from their governments on these issues. They won’t be willing to radically modify their factories, offices and practices unless everyone else is following suit. From their viewpoint, why would they? Aside from a few exceptions, no corporation will sacrifice their profits and reduce shareholder value while their competitors stand pat and face no punishments. Therefore, not only will there be a requirement for new policies to be enacted but there also must reward-based system in order to encourage speedy compliance.

Brent Densmore

Next week Brent will discuss and break-down some of the political changes that have the potential to revolutionize the way the environment is treated within politics, as well as a look a the some of the international issues that pose a challenge in solving this crisis.

March 18, 2009

Exciting New Developments with The Blog Journalists

Instead of the usual Wednesday blog, this evening we will be introducing some of the topics and events that are percolating in The Blog Journalists newsroom and will be produced for the public over the coming weeks.

Starting this Friday Blog Journalist Brent Densmore will be beginning a 4 piece blog series, appearing over the next 4 Fridays, delving into the ever more pertinent issue of sustainable development. Brent, a graduating student at Ryerson University, has spent hours preparing for this in-depth and concentrated look at how to combat issues such as urban sprawl and find cost-efficient and environmentally friendly ways of improving public transit.

Also, beginning next week, co-founding Blog Journalist Will Grassby will beginning an extended and provocative 10 part series looking at religion, faith and atheism from a number of different perspectives. This series will include snippets from current events as well as references to both contemporary and historical thinkers such as Richard Dawkins, Alister McGrath and even Jesus himself. Will endevours through this series to break down the of the barriers that exist between believers and non-believers as well as to take a new and refreshing angle on a topic that is all to often dragged down (from both sides) by a monotony of worn-out arguments.

In addition to these new developments, Russ MacDonald will be continuing with his usual weekly column which we all look forward to with baited breath. There is no doubt he has some pots on the burners that are boiling over with stories to satiate our intelligent readers' appetites.


That's what is cooking right now with The Blog Journalists. Please be sure to check back at 5pm Eastern time on Friday, armed with your comments, for the premiere of Brent Densmores first major blog series.

That's all for now!

Ciao

Will Grassby and The Blog Journalists

March 16, 2009

Selfishness Sends Sity Spiralling Strikewards

I think my poetic licence may be revoked after that title. Oh well.

As was predicted in this space one month ago, the OC Transpo has reversed its decision on banning ads from the Freethought Association of Canada declaring the improbability of God’s existence, and encouraging people to enjoy their lives. I have also seen a marked reduction in the ‘Gods of Rock’ ads, although that just may be a coincidence. But alas, this is not the focus of today’s piece, although today still follows on the trend of buses.

As most Ottawans know, the OC Transpo strike came to an end on January 31st, after both sides agreed to go to binding arbitration with the impending threat of back-to-work legislation from the federal government. The arbitration hearing (or however that works) is set for the summer, I believe. Both sides seemed pleased, as of course did all of the citizens who rely on the transit to live their lives. You may recall that the most contentious issue on the table was that of scheduling. The city wanted to take more control of the drivers’ schedules, claiming they could save money, and then later changing their story calling it a safety issue. The drivers argued that it was about their quality of life, and being able to spend more time with their families by drawing their schedules the way they wanted based on seniority.

So for a month things ran fairly smoothly. The buses gradually got back on the roads, and service seemed to return to normal. Recently, the OC Transpo has begun to enforce federal safety standards requiring drivers to work no more than fourteen hours per day and requiring minimum eight-hour rest periods between shifts. These are standards intended to increase safety by reducing driver fatigue, although driver fatigue has never been an issue. Twenty years ago these regulations were waived by the federal government at the request of cities so that they would be able to run their systems more efficiently. Now, at the behest of the city of Ottawa, federal Transport Minister (and Ottawa MP) John Baird has announced his intention to overturn this exemption, to address driver fatigue (which, again, has never been an issue). This ruling will also affect transit systems in Windsor and Gatineau, as they are the only three systems that cross provincial or national borders.

In retaliation for these measures being taken unilaterally by the city, the Amalgamated Transit Union that represents the drivers has stopped their drivers from booking further schedules. Drivers are currently scheduled until April 17th, although the city has said that even if the dispute is not settled by then, the service will continue on the existing schedule. There is also an indication that some drivers have begun an independent and unofficial work-to-rule campaign, pulling such stunts as intentionally dawdling and delaying service, driving past people waiting to get on, in some cases buses have been reported as not showing up at all. Union leader and notorious jerk André Cornellier said about work-to-rule: “I’m delighted if they are, but I can say we didn’t ask them to do anything.”

I believe the real issue here to be about money. The city can claim safety all they want, but the exemption to the federal safety rules was put in place at their request. And, again, the city has admitted that driver fatigue has never led to an accident. The drivers on the other hand can claim quality of life all they want, but there have been reports of drivers earning six-figure salaries, by abusing and manipulating their schedules to produce the greatest amount of overtime. Now I’m not suggesting that workers shouldn’t be granted overtime pay, but surely the extra pay is compensation for extenuating and negative circumstances regarding your schedule, and when you are in charge of your own schedule, then perhaps you should not be granted the same level of overtime pay? Especially not when it comes directly at taxpayer expense.

So what we are left with again is another stand-off, but hopefully this time we have the tools to avoid another strike. The Conservative federal government is working with the right-wing mayor of Ottawa to try and save money and make the system more efficient, at the expense of the people who make the system run. On the other side is the union, ostentatiously standing up for overtime pay by leaving little old ladies at the curb as their buses fly past (and assuredly soak them with water; spring time is upon us, and this city has a terrible roadside drainage problem). And neither side is willing to admit that this is what they’re in fact doing: they both have thinly veiled claims to safety and quality.

And in the end the losers again are the people of Ottawa. We stand and wait for late, crowded buses driven by smug drivers, while the bureaucrats posture. It doesn’t seem unreasonable to me that the boss would be in charge of scheduling their employees, in order for the system to run at its best. It also doesn’t seem unreasonable to me to give seasoned employees some say in this process, as they generally work hard at a tough job that occasionally requires driving the Midnight 95. However, employees who intentionally schedule their own overtime should not be entitled to the same level of benefits as others. You should not be able to artificially create overtime work, and if it were truly about quality of life, then this would not be an issue for the drivers.

Russel MacDonald

March 11, 2009

The Merging of the World: Using Connectivity to Understand and Promote Diversity

Over time humanity has always striven after connectivity and through this connectivity; unity, but all too often this goal becomes perverted. In connecting with others we sense an incompatibility which causes us to shy away from those sharing a different opinion. It can even lead to violence, war and destruction. When was the last time you heard of a war between two countries because they agreed about something?

The reason our quest after unity becomes perverted is simple. In our desire to be the same, we realize somewhere along the way that we are not. Most of us are passive enough to simply back away and surround ourselves with people who share our opinion. Some of us, mostly those with a philosophical or political persuasion, will attempt to engage the other in discussion and have a lively debate, perhaps trying to convince each other to re-evaluate their assessment. There are also those that are so sure that they have the truth that they move beyond lively debate to criticism, derogation, fundamentalism and general intolerance. All of these phenomena however are, as I previously mentioned, results of a single desire; a desire for unity.

Perhaps it seems ironic that a notion such as “unity”; a notion that is so commonly seen as a virtue can also be the source of so much discord. Then again maybe this does not come as a big surprise. Other more notorious phenomena can also be linked to unity, or homogeneity. Communism, ethnic-cleansing, ethnocentrism, religious fundamentalism, colonization and even random violence all involve the employment of different methods of assimilation in order to convert, convince or force people to be the same.

Yet for some reason these methods do not work. They cause significant pain and suffering, but they never succeed in totally assimilation or eliminating the other race, belief or point of view. One only needs to look as far as the holocaust or the Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia to see that even the most extreme political movements and violence is not strong enough to wipe out even one group of people or one ideology.

It is worth noting however that these movements to assimilate exist in forms we do not recognize on a daily basis. Trends are one of the obvious forms of social assimilation that we accept and buy into all the time; one that is especially evident among kids, but exists also among kids of all ages. Feeling pressure to get that new toy because everyone at school has it is a way of avoiding social exclusion that almost everyone has been a part of. As a kid I remember in the span of a week almost everyone in my class had a fancy new generation yo-yo and I thought, I don’t even like yo-yos, but I don’t want to be the only one without one. Another example is how over the past half-century women, at least in the Western world, have enjoyed liberation from patriarchal assimilation and sexism, but at the same time they are expected to conform in other ways that are more subtle. The pressures to be skinny, to look beautiful all the time and to be feminine are all forms of assimilation that millions of women buy into everyday. Even men feel pressure to fit into the mould of the socially acceptable “manly-man.”

What I am getting at here is that social pressure and social assimilation are more subtle, and therefore more powerful than major ideological movements. It seems that people are a lot more willing to buy into being the same as others when it does not happen on the rational level, but instead on the subliminal level defined by “social acceptability.”

This, however, is not a good thing. As we move towards a higher plane of connectedness, we are more and more surrounded by information and propaganda that we don’t even know exists. In this sense, I would suggest it is ever more important to have a clear picture of who we are and what exactly is important to us; something that is not always easy.

Connectivity and uniformity are, as I suggested in the opening paragraph, intertwined. The nature of information is of course to inform, but also convince. This is a good thing. The world would be a boring place without difference of opinion and lively discussion. This is precisely why it is so important to preserve the diversity of opinion we have and that starts right with our own individuality.

This, however, is the paradox of the age of connectivity. How are we supposed to convince other people that we are right and preserve diversity at the same time? If we truly had our way in this, everyone would be exactly the same with the same understanding of the world as we have. Of course we will never be successful in convincing everybody ourselves, but as I already discussed, the power of social pressure is huge and is only catalyzed by the immeasurable amount of information we have at our fingertips today.

Like I said before though, the answer to this paradox can really only be what we can ourselves do as individuals. We have to be able to respectfully disagree but at the same time try to understand others, and even when we cannot understand others, we can marvel at the intricacy and diversity of the world we live in. Those that try to change others and make them more like themselves really only cause anguish, no matter what their cause.

Perhaps this is a little post-modern, but finding unity in our differences is a possibility in my eyes. We, as individuals, are all linked by our uniqueness and as our connections to each other continue to grow, we should use this connectivity to explore instead of assimilate. In the end, we have to realize the possibility that someone else’s way might just be as good as ours.

Will Grassby

March 09, 2009

The Question of Religious Education Funding in Ontario’s Schools

On Friday John Tory announced he would be stepping down as leader of the Ontario Progressive Conservative party, after a humiliating by-election defeat to Liberal Rick Johnson in the riding of Haliburton-Kawartha Lakes-Brock, near Peterborough. The by-election was held after PC MPP Laurie Scott agreed to step aside and allow Tory to run in an attempt to gain a seat in the legislature, after he was defeated in his home Toronto riding of Don Valley West in the 2007 election. The rural Kawartha Lakes riding was considered a lock, after Scott had defeated Johnson in 2007 by 10 000 votes, but Tory’s career as party leader fizzled as lost by 906 votes. I almost feel bad for him.

The 2007 election was largely dominated by the single issue of funding for religious schools, after one of the most curious and self-defeating policy gaffes in recent memory. John Tory came out in favour of extending public funding to religious schools beyond the Catholic School Board, provided they met the criteria laid out by the province. This issue was met with huge backlash, and Tory later retreated to the promise of a ‘free vote’ if elected. Liberal leader Dalton McGuinty argued in favour of the status quo, with Catholic schools the only non-secular institutions receiving public funds, and the provincial Greens argued for a singular, unified secular board in Ontario. This is a large part of the reason why I supported the Greens.

To fully understand the issue, as with any issue, one must understand the history behind them (thus the importance of learning history). When Canada was created with the signing of the British North America Act in 1867, there were two dominant groups in the country; English Protestants, mainly in Ontario, Nova Scotia, and parts of New Brunswick; and the French Catholics, residing mainly in Québec. Education was inherently religious in nature, and incorporating and assimilating children into these dominant Christian faiths was seen as beneficial for society. Taken to the extremes, this resulted in Residential Schools, where native children were taken from their homes and indoctrinated with western values; abuse that we are still apologizing for.

But over the coming years, immigration increased, and from different parts of the world. Society diversified, and multiculturalism became an official national policy. The ‘English Protestant’ board gradually transformed into the inclusive, secular board we see today. A ruling by the provincial court in 1994 even officially declared the board secular, after certain religious groups asserted that the public education provided was ‘humanist,’ and ran in opposition to their views. Even in Québec did society become more secular, after the Quiet Revolution of the 1970s, with their school systems eventually becoming two secular systems, one serving the English population, and the other the French. Ontario and Alberta remain the only two provinces providing funding for Roman Catholic schools.

For those of us born in the 1980s in Ontario, fully funded Catholic schools will seem like the norm, but it must be realized that it wasn’t until 1985 that funding for Catholic schools was fully extended to include grades 11-13 to create a fully funded Catholic board. Waves of Catholic immigrants in the 60s and 70s had created an electorate that was 1/3 Catholic, and all three parties were vying for these votes. This decision came about after numerous court cases on various aspects of religious education had been filtering through the Ontario courts since 1928.

Mr. Tory is right. To continue to fund, at the expense of the public education system, only one separate school board providing education to one religious group is unjust. It is even a practice condemned by the United Nations, as it runs in contravention of the UN Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, for discriminating in favour of one faith over others, even though it has repeatedly been declared not a violation of Section 2(a) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. With the ever changing face of Ontario and ever shifting societal values, public institutions must reflect these changes. Especially institutions fostering the development and growth of our children. By placing all children at an equal level in an inclusive, secular education system, they are all able to learn from each other and we best suit the needs of society. The opportunities and experiences presented to these pupils learning together is one of greater inclusiveness and social harmony. By dividing children and bussing them around the city based on religious lines will only lead to a further divided society.

A certain amount of upheaval would surely result from reducing our education system to one single publicly funded board, but in the interests of providing the best level of education for all of Ontario students, this is a step which must be taken. Similar factors were faced by the people of Newfoundland, with their public schools divided amongst many different Protestant denominations (and no secular board), and half-empty buses were shuttling students all across the cities to reach under-funded schools. A 1997 referendum in the province, moving to reduce the schools to one single public board, garnered 73% support, and has led to a better school system for all of Newfoundland’s students. With changing provincial values and demographics, and positive results seen in other parts of the country, Ontario must follow suit.

Russel MacDonald

March 04, 2009

Sudan and Neo-Colonialism in Africa

On a day where a warrant was issued out of The International Criminal Court in The Hague for Sudanese leader Omar al-Bashir, a term was used that is becoming more and more prevalent. In response to the warrant that detailed war crimes and crimes against humanity during the ongoing conflict in the Darfur region, a statement from the Sudanese government read as follows:

“This decision is exactly what we have been expecting from the court, which was created to target Sudan and to be part of the new mechanism of neo-colonialism,”

They also dismissed the warrant saying it would “not be worth the ink it is written on” and that the ICC could “eat” it (Source: BBC).

The question that is raised in all this is exactly what role the Western world should and is even able to play in Sudan. Unfortunatly similar to the propaganda used by the Mugabe regime in Zimbabwe, al-Bashir is playing up the past destruction of European colonialism to reflect the Western world, instead of himself, as the enemy. The term neo-colonialism essentially means: “They screwed us before and they’ll do it again.”

And who are we to say otherwise? At least that is what people in Sudan would say to Westerners. The truth is that there is nothing any Westerner, including myself, can say to combat this type of propaganda. In fact, anything we do say, no matter how well reasoned it is, is like blowing air into a fire to big to be blown out; it will only fuel the fire of anti-Europeanism.

This propaganda is so strong in fact that I have to take a step back and really evaluate the situation. Of course as an outsider I am biased. Even with my mind open as wide as it will go my criticism of another country in another part of the world will be conceived as biased and judgmental. This is the problem that members of the industrialized world face as we try and help the poorer nations of the world. But why?

The sad reality of the situation is that their propaganda, although false and misleading within the context of the current situation in the Darfur region and the atrocities committed by the al-Bahir regime, is grounded in truth. The Sudanese have every reason to mistrust the people that came to convert and colonize them; people that are just as foreign in their concept of the world as the geographically “othered” Africa is to us.

The warrant issued today is not useless. If nothing else it is a statement; a statement that however biased the Western world’s opinions might be; al-Bashir is a criminal. Whether or not this ruling is accepted in Sudan is inconsequential. Undoubtedly the question will be (and to some degree has already been) raised whether or not the ICC has the right to determine who is or is not a criminal in countries such as Sudan. Obviously rulings such as these must be monitored closely. It is always dangerous when a court is given too much power and is too liberal in handing out punishments. In this case however, the warrant is clearly justified, if not too light-handed as it does not accuse al-Bashir of genocide, although all signs have pointed to ethnic-cleansing on non-arab Sudanese in the Darfur region for quite some time.

With regards to “neo-colonialism” it is still up for debate whether this concept is wholly invented or if it exists. It is difficult for anyone reading this in a Western country to try and take an African perspective on this, but I would suggest that most of our conceptions of Africa involve some sort of idea of Western involvement in areas like the Darfur region of Sudan. Whether in a humanitarian sense or a more militaristic sense, the participation of the industrialized nations in the affairs of underdeveloped countries has become associated with terms like duty and obligation.

However altruistic these notions might be we have to remember that charity is often bundled together with derogation. In other words, the involvement of the Western world in African affairs can be seen as meddling or in a “we know what’s best for you” sense. This does not mean we should not be helping countries like Sudan. It just means that we should be aware that not all Africans are like Omar al-Bashir and that these people should have our respect and be treated equally to any Westerner. The Sudanese, as well as all Africans, have a point of view that should be heard and respected for its differences as well its similarities to ours. If it is not than we are doing nothing but fulfilling the neo-colonialist propaganda that keeps men like al-Bashir in power and fuels the genocide his propaganda conceals.

Will Grassby

March 02, 2009

Barenaked Ladies are Us

I wonder how much Kraft Dinner they eat now. When four twenty-year-olds from Scarborough piled into a Speaker’s Corner booth at Queen and John, they were beginning a twenty year odyssey from goofy Canadian indie folk to international rock stars. It’s been One Week (less a day) since a large chapter in that journey drew to a close. Last Tuesday, Steven Page announced he was leaving the Barenaked Ladies to further pursue a solo career, and the rest of the band would be carrying on without him.

They are saying all the right things about mutual decisions and continuing careers, and there’s really nothing to suggest otherwise, but after a year involving kids’ albums, cocaine, and plane crashes, cracks were beginning to show. Maintaining a creative relationship involving musicians as talented as Page and Ed Robertson can always have its complications. Let’s hope this provides Page an avenue to further explore his own creative ideas, and that the band can carry on without one of its founding members.

But speculation and hearsay aside, we should remember the Barenaked Ladies for what they meant to Canadian music and to many of us individually. Personally, it started as a kid, with my parents’ copy of Gordon with the original cover as the soundtrack to those car trips to Nova Scotia (it was a while before I learned that Mr Roboto was actually its own song). One of my earliest arena concert experiences was BNL at the ACC in high school with my friends, and then again as the second-to-last act at Live 8 in Barrie. When I first picked up a guitar a few years back, some of the first songs I learned were Brian Wilson, If I had $1000000, and The Old Apartment.

The Ladies also had a big impact on this country. Starting at Speaker’s Corner, they had a large relationship with their home town of Toronto, despite being kicked off the 1991 New Year’s Eve bill by Mayor June Rowlands for ‘objectifying women.’ They would go on to sing about their new place on the Danforth, sweet Jane (and) St. Clair, GO Trains, and Birchmount Stadium, Home of the Robbie, as well as giving nods to Halifax, Peterborough, Phil Esposito, and much more Canadiana. They would sing silly songs about Yoko Ono, Styx, and their hardships faced in Grade Nine (they called me Buckwheat!).

Reaching international fame with One Week and Stunt, they added to Canada’s already disproportionately large contribution to international music, and toured the world. Following Stunt and after Kevin Hearn’s battle with leukemia, they released a more serious album Maroon, spawning such hits as Pinch Me, and Too Little Too Late. Later albums would feature songs about Chimps, tunes for the holidays, and in 2008 a kids’ album called Snacktime, displaying an extremely versatile musical repertoire.

Perhaps most appealing about the band is their propensity for humour and fun. They never took things too seriously, and this shows in their songs and their persona. It takes a rare talent to be able to sing about eating too much Kraft Dinner and Yoko sings “Aoyoyoyoyoyoyo!” mixed with more serious numbers about preconceived gender roles and spousal abuse, all on the same album. To get a good idea of the fun Page and Robertson have, check out the Bathroom Sessions on Youtube, where the two of them and an acoustic guitar perform a number of their songs, and genuinely have fun. Ed also provides some 'How To' videos for a few songs, something that not a lot of musicians will make the time for or openly 'give away' their songs for free.

So, good luck to all parties with future endeavours. Here's looking forward to the reunion tour. In closing, some of my favourites moments from twenty years of making records:
Downtown record shops in the rain; demanding the nostalgic return of old mousetraps and dishracks; cruel green dresses; sprinklers and gym shorts; shopping carts in the ravine, foam on the creek like pop and ice cream; you’re the last thing on my mind; laughing at funerals; and if I filmed my sister walking, I’d yell stuff like: “Hey, get off the phone!”

Thanks, that was fun.
Russ MacDonald
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_snpe3QmzCc&feature=related Bedside Manor (they almost lose it laughing)